From: Subject: Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 20:08:52 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Location: mhtml:file://C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Andrew\Desktop\BERLET24.mht X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028

           &nbs= p;            = ;        =20 Berlina/Giulia Register Newsletter = No. 24 (May=20 2007)

 

 

Notes and Comment

 

Welcome to Berlina/Giulia Register newsletter 24.  In this issue a give a tech = tip on=20 getting mechanical-clutch-linkage cars not to judder so badly when = backing.  I also tackle the minefield of = the many=20 Giulia sedan variants, in words and = pictures.  This is just a start, as = it=92s a=20 complicated area, and I won=92t claim this first draft to be = error-free. 

I recently saw on ebay = that Giulia sedan body repair panels are made in = Belgium by Van=20 Wezel International.  If you=92re in need of Giulia rust repair panels for sills, lower = fenders, and the=20 like, check out http://www.vanwezel.be/,=20 though I didn=92t immediately see any classic parts there. As to Berlina body parts, good luck.  Giulia sills=20 can probably be lengthened to fit, but anything else external you=92d = have to=20 source from NOS parts or a parts Berlina, or have fabricated.

Domestically, in = January I bought=20 a 1965 Ford Mustang (200 CI six-cylinder with three-speed manual trans) project car to mess with.  I=92ve always like mid-60s = Fords, and grew=20 up on a 1965 289 Falcon wagon. Out of the blue, a couple weeks later I = was=20 offered a green 1972 2000 Berlina on such = favorable=20 terms that I couldn=92t pass it up. =20 So I have a Berlina again, after a = no-Berlina period of three years since I sold my = gone-but-not=20 forgotten beige cava 1972 Berlina.  This Berlina=20 is not the nicest on the planet, but is complete, runs well with Euro = cams and=20 Spica, and sits low low on=20 its IAP springs.  Same owner since 1979.  Almost immediately I sorted out = its=20 clutch and driveshaft, and have fixed its gauge problems and nonworking = heater=20 fan.   I may keep is as a track-car = replacement=20 for my GTV, or may just drive it awhile, sort out its ills, then sell = it, or=20 something as yet undreamed of. =20 We=92ll see.  It is = nice to=20 have a Berlina again; it=92s the same color = combo=20 (green/tan) as my Super and they make a nice compare/contrast duo.  I love my Super, but no = question the=20 Berlina has a strong separate appeal.  I put Rugh=20 springs, a new diff, and renewed suspension bushings and adjustable = upper A-arms=20 on my GTV to improve its handling for track use.  The Rugh=20 springs lower it a bit more than I=92d like, and I may shim the front up = a=20 hair.  It definitely = sticks to the=20 road better, and looks better.

The keeper of the = Berlina Register and North American Giulia Sedan Register is Andrew Watry, email=20 watry@prodigy.net.  Send = me=20 corrections to your register information or any other Giulia- and Berlina-related facts,=20 rumors, tips, or needs.  = Always seeking articles for the newsletter.  The keeper of the = international Giulia Sedan Register is Barry Edmunds in = Australia, email=20 barrye1@hotkey.net.au

 

 

Giulia/Berlina Forum

 

Solving=20 Giulia Sedan Reverse Clutch=20 Judder

by=20 Andrew Watry

 

I have worked at solving my Giulia Super's clutch judder/axle hop problem, = common to=20 mechanical-clutch-linkage 105 cars (maybe 101 too).  My Super's = judder was=20 so bad it was virtually impossible to back up on a hill.  My mechanical-clutch Super = came with a=20 hydraulic-clutch-type rear transmission mount bushing in it, which is = softer=20 than the original mechanic-clutch mount bushing, no longer available = from=20 Alfa.  Last year, I replaced it with an OKP (German) repro = non-urethane=20 mechanical-clutch trans mount. That solved = the reverse=20 judder, but apparently due to the hardness of the rubber transmitted so = much=20 vibration all the time that I couldn=92t stand it, and removed it and = put in a new=20 hydraulic type; alas, back to square one. =20 Heading in a new direction, I recently made the fix detailed on = Jack=20 Chesley's Giulia = Super site=20 (http://www.alfaclubdc.com/suprtip3.htm), taken from a 1965 Alfa service = bulletin.  See the graphic = below.

My steel trans=20 mount piece already had a 11mm hole in it dead center behind the trans = mount=20 boss.  So a Super hood bumper, pictured in the bulletin, might fit=20 perfectly, but I didn't have one, plus it would be 40 years old.  I = found=20 an 80s Cadillac hood bumper piece at the = junkyard=20 similar to what's pictured in the bulletin, with 8 x 1.25 mm = threads.  I=20 had Norman Racing weld in a large area 8mm washer to distribute the load = and nut=20 on the inside of the mount, I cut a screwdriver slot in the end of the = 8mm stud=20 with a hacksaw for adjustment from the rear of the mount, and installed = it with=20 an 8mm locknut on the outside.  I adjusted it up so it just made = contact=20 with the trans mount boss, plus a half turn of preload, which the = bulletin says=20 is OK, but that may depend on what kind of bumper you use, how soft it = is, and=20 its overall condition.

           =20 So far the results are good.  The problem on my car is not = totally=20 eliminated, but is 75 percent better.  I will mess with the amount = of=20 preload over time to see if I can make it a bit better.  It = transmits a=20 small amount of vibration in specific circumstances, but it's basically = fine and=20 I consider the problem solved, unless someone makes true OEM-style=20 mechanical-clutch trans mount bushings that = match the=20 softness of the original

           =20 The condition of the trans and engine = mounts can=20 affect this, so the better condition they're in, probably the less = trouble=20 you=92ll have.  But you risk introducing vibration by messing with = them if=20 your car is OK as is.  Norman Racing thinks converting to cable = throttle=20 actuation rather than rod-actuated throttle would help.  They think = it's a=20 triple-feedback loop with mechanical clutch components, mechanical = throttle=20 components, all moving against each other as the engine torques on its=20 relatively soft rubber mounts.  The real fix is to convert to = hydraulic=20 clutch actuation, which Alfa did in 1969 (along with a throttle cable), = but=20 that's a bigger project.

 

 

 

The Many = Flavors of=20 Giulia Sedans

 

Alfa built more than = 475,000 Giulia sedans from 1962-1976, in a bewildering = variety of=20 models that can lead to headaches and confusion in trying to sort = out.  I=92ll attempt to give some = explanation=20 here of the many types and styles. =20 The vast majority of these models were not sold in the US, so a = lot of=20 this is a research project for me, rather than a personal-experience = project. I=20 attempt to list them in chronological order.

           =20 I=92m relying to a great extent of Fusi=92s All the=20 Alfa Romeo Models which, like me, is fallible, so I apologize in advance = for any=20 errors, and look forward to comments and corrections.  Also, I got information from = Jack Chesley=92s very useful Giulia sedan=20 web page (see http://www.alfaclubdc.com/jsuper1.htm).

Giulia TI (105.14) 1962-1967; 46,000 = built.=20 The original Giulia sedan from 1962, with = 5-speed=20 column-shift, bench front seat (officially a six-seater), single carb = normale 1600, full-width grille with stamped = center, four=20 headlights, small taillights, metal dash with strip speedo, two-spoke steering wheel. Early cars were = all-drum=20 brakes, morphing to disk/drum later, and = finally=20 all-Dunlop disk.  5.12 = rear axle=20 ratio.  Also tipo 105.09 were knocked-down kits (CKD) for = export tax=20 purposes.  Also came in = RHD form=20 (Gd).

           =20 Giulia TI (105.08) 1964-1967; 24,000 = built.=20 Same basic car as the 105.14 but with floor shift = (=93cambio cloche=94 compared =93cambio=20 volante=94 column shift) and bucket front=20 seats.  Appeared in 1964. =20 By this time, I believe all had disk brakes.

           =20 Giulia TI Super (105.16) 1963-1964; = 500 built.=20 A 1600 lightweight racing version of Giulia = sedan with=20 112 HP SS-spec dual carb 1600, lightweight = seats and=20 bodywork, same basic dash but with round Giulia Sprint=20 instruments, three-spoke aluminum steering wheel, mag=20 wheels.  Allegedly 500 = built.=20 Four-headlight grille, but inner headlights replaced with wire mesh. = Dunlop disk=20 brakes, 5.12 rear axle. Raced extensively and successfully, and some = were used=20 as =93mules=94 for GTA development.

Giulia 1300 Berlina=20 (105.06)  1964-1971; = 33,000=20 built.  First 1300=20 variant of the Giulia sedan, from = 1964.  78 HP = Single-carb 1300 with four-speed floor-shift = transmission.=20 Two headlights instead of four and same steering = wheel and=20 metal dash, rubber floor mats, and two-spoke steering wheel as 1600 = TI.=20 Introduced smaller front fender repeater = lights. 4.56=20 rear axle.

Giulia Super (105.26) =20 1965-1974; 85,000 built. First twin-carb variant of the Giulia sedan=20 built in significant numbers, the longest built, and the best-known = model. Introduced 1965. =20 Twin-carb 1600 = engine, four=20 headlights, full-width grille with two-piece cast center, sculpted = =93armchair=94=20 seats, three-spoke aluminum steering wheel from TI Super, wood/vinyl = dash with=20 =93binnacle=94 for main instruments, large taillights.  Early ones had Dunlop disks, = switching=20 to ATE in 1966/67.  4.56 = rear axle=20 ratio.  Also came in RHD = form with=20 different tipo number (105.28) and in CKD = form.

           =20 Giulia 1300 TI (105.39) 1965-1972; = 200,000=20 built. Slightly nicer version of the 1300 Berlina, now with five-speed.  Highest production numbers by = far.  Still two headlights, Spartan = interior,=20 and single carb as on 1300 Berlina, but slightly better performance with 82 = HP.  4.56 rear axle.  Introduced = three-spoke=20 black plastic steering wheel. Also in RHD = form with=20 different tipo number (105.40).

           =20 Giulia 1600 S (105.85) =20 1968-1970; 2200 built.  Introduced in 1968, a = short-lived=20 single-carb 1600 with 98 HP and 4.78 rear = axle ration,=20 billed as a =93motorway=94 car.  = Also in RHD form with different tipo=20 number (105.87).

           =20 Giulia Super Promiscua=20 (105.26)  1968-1969 = (including=20 above). Appearing in 1968, same tipo number = as the=20 Giulia Super sedan, but this is the basis = for the=20 Giulia Super wagon made within Alfa and also = outside=20 carrozzeria such as Colli.  = TI=20 wagons have standard 105.14 tipo = numbers.

           =20 Giulia 1300 Super (115.09) = 1970-1973; 75,000=20 built. First twin-carb variant of the 1300 = Giulia appearing in 1970, which had four = headlights and=20 better interior, in addition to dual carbs.  4.56 rear axle. First = appearance of the=20 115 prefix on a Giulia sedan, which is odd, = since 115=20 was largely for US-only 2000 models, but showed up on several non-US=20 models.  RHD in=20 built and CKD form as 115.10 tipo.

           =20 Giulia Nuova = Super 1600=20 (105.26, 105.26a, 105.26s) 1974-1976 (included above).  Restyled = 1600 version=20 of the Giulia sedan with flattened hood and = trunk=20 lacking earlier character relief, blockier wrap-around bumpers, plastic = Berlina-style grille, and center console. = Twin carbs, usually Solex. 4.10 rear axle.  

           =20 Giulia Nuova = Super 1300=20 (115.09S) 1974-1976 (included above).  Restyled = 1300 version=20 of the Giulia sedan with same modernized = Nuova styling as 1600. Twin carbs. =20 Fusi lists 4.10 rear axle, but I=92m skeptical that a 1300 could pull = such an axle.=20 Some possible tipo = confusion here,=20 as some of these are 115.09 and some 115.09S. 

           =20 Giulia Super 1.6 (115.29) = 1974-1976.  Uncertain yet what this is; = perhaps a=20 straight replacement for the Giulia Super = 1600.  Also tipo 115.30, probably RHD version.

           =20 Giulia Nuova = Super=20 Diesel (115.40?) 1976; = 6600=20 built.  Nuova Super body with an English 1800 cc = four-cylinder=20 Perkins diesel, putting out 55 HP. 4.10 rear axle.  Presumably = a reaction=20 to the 1973 gas shortage.  = This is the same tipo as the CKD 1300 = TI, which=20 doesn=92t make sense to me.

Here is general = coverage of the=20 many detail differences.  = This is=20 something of a minefield to sort out with the many models, especially = 30-40=20 years after the fact:

=B7       =20 Grille: In late 1967-1968, the = grille=20 changed from a full-width stainless stamping with a separate stamped = (TI) or=20 cast center heart-shaped shell (Super), to a five-piece grille with a = stamped=20 center heart, separate cast or stamped headlight surrounds (single = circles for=20 1300s; figure 8s for Supers), and black mesh grille pieces between the = center=20 grille and the lights.  = This lasted=20 until the plastic Nuova Berlina-style grille came into use in the mid 70s. = Generally, 1300 grilles were simpler than 1600 grilles (and most 1300s = had two=20 headlights, not four). There are many detail differences in this area; = see=20 graphic below for some information.

=B7       =20 Bumper: There are a variety of = bumper=20 variations.  Early bumpers = have more=20 rounded detailing; in 1969-1970 the shape became more squared off, and = further=20 changed with the Nuova with a long = wrap-around part at=20 the rear.  Early TIs have a cutout in the front bumper for the turn = signals,=20 and are chromed steel. Later bumpers are stainless.  Overriders=20 changed location, and some models (TI Super, 1300 Berlina) have no overriders at=20 all.

=B7       =20 Rockers: The 1965 Giulia Super introduced stainless rocker panel = spears, which=20 do not appear to have been used on any other model, including the Nuova Super.

=B7       =20 Hood:=20 The hood was originally held open by a spring-loaded strut extending = from the=20 firewall center to the hood. This was phased out in 1970, replaced by a = folding=20 strut at the driver=92s side rear corner, similar to a strut used on = 1600 GTVs.  = Giulia TIs and Supers = through the=20 advent of the Nuova had a stainless spear = down the=20 ridge in the center of the hood.  = Just behind the hood, the wiper cowl changed slightly: = originally, Giulia TIs and Giulia 1300 Berlinas = had crosswise=20 slats trimmed with stainless. =20 Beginning with the Giulia Super, = these slats=20 were made longitudinal, and lost their trim.

=B7       =20 A-pillar: Early Giulias had a stainless trim panel on each = A-pillar in front=20 of the door, which fits under the windshield gasket and meets the = stainless drip=20 rail trim.  Eventually = (1970ish?)=20 both of these trims were phased out, probably in the interest of = cost.

=B7       =20 License=20 frame: Giulia TIs in=20 Europe had a stainless rectangle on the rear panel in the shape of the = Italian=20 license plate, as well as horizontal rectangular stainless trim around = the=20 taillights, not used on any subsequent model.

=B7       =20 C-pillar: The 1965 Giulia Super introduced a small riveted plinth on = the=20 C-pillar behind each rear door with a round plastic Alfa emblem glued in = it.  In 1969, Supers = changed to a=20 green enamel snake emblem, and other models had a short finishing panel = with no=20 emblem.  Early cars had = just a=20 welded seam here.

=B7       =20 Door=20 handles: Door handles, both inside and out, changed to a smoother, = more=20 modern version, similar to the Berlina, in = 1970.

=B7       =20 Badging: Script on the rear face of = the trunk=20 lid varied from model to model.  = In=20 general, early cars said Alfa Romeo in various typefaces (block, = lowercase=20 cursive, upper and lower cursive) on the raised center of the trunk = above the=20 trunk latch, and the model name on the right.  On later cars the Alfa script = moved to=20 the left side of the trunk.  = The TI=20 Super had a script on the hood, in addition to the trunk, as did the = Giulia Super with five-piece grille (from late = 1967). 

=B7       =20 Wheels and=20 hubcaps: All models except TI Supers have stamped steel wheels with = vent=20 holes.  Cars through 1969 = have 15=94=20 wheels, after that have 14=94. =20 Earliest cars have spring clips like Giuliettas=20 to hold the hubcaps; beginning in about 1966 three = raised=20 tangs on the wheel ridge allow a different hubcap to be snapped = on; this=20 may have coincided with the introduction of ATE brakes.  The stainless hubcaps changed = over time,=20 with at least three variations; early cars have standard hubcaps like = other=20 1600s with laurels in the plastic ring. In 1968 the hubcaps were = standardized=20 with 1750s that say ALFA ROMEO in the plastic ring; 1972 and later cars = have a=20 small center trapped =93hat=94 stainless hubcap held by shouldered lug = nuts like=20 2000s.  1300 variations = had=20 simplified stamped hubcaps with no plastic ring.  TI Supers had cast TZ wheels = with=20 oblong, not round, vent holes.

=B7       =20 Dash:=20 Giulia TIs and = Giulia 1300 Berlinas = have the=20 original stamped steel dash with strip speedo and=20 round tach; TI Supers use the same structure = but with=20 three round Giulia Sprint instruments.  The Giulia=20 Super in 1965 introduced a wood/vinyl dash with instrument binnacle, = which=20 eventually was rationalized to all models, with detail differences, = about 1969.=20 The metal dash was phased out at that time. Supers from 1969 have two = small=20 instruments on a separate panel below the heater panel.  Nuovas=20 received a center console.

=B7       =20 Steering=20 wheel: Giulia TIs and=20 Giulia 1300 Berlinas came=20 with a heavy steel two-spoke steering wheel with black plastic rim, = padded=20 center with Alfa emblem, and =93wand=94 horn rim; a very = American-looking wheel. The=20 Giulia TI Super introduced a racy = three-spoke aluminum=20 wheel with black plastic rim and large round black horn button, also = used on the=20 Giulia Super beginning in 1965.  This same wheel was used on = early Sprint=20 GTs.  = Later non-US Supers used the same wheel as 1600 GTVs with horn pushes in the spokes.  Later 1300s had a stylized = thin=20 three-spoke black plastic wheel with shiny horn pushes along the = spokes.  Late 1600s used a dished = Hellebore wheel=20 with wood or plastic rim.

=B7       =20 Floors: The earliest cars = (TIs, TI Supers, Supers) = had=20 multi-piece wool carpets.  = 1300s=20 tended to have rubber floor mats. =20 Later cars tended to have nylon carpet, molded in the case of the = last=20 models, as on Berlinas.

=B7       =20 Seats:=20 Early TIs came with bench (column shift) or = bucket=20 (floor shift) front seats.  = The TI=20 Super had lightweight front seats much like on the Giulietta SZ. =20 The Giulia Super introduced a much = more=20 supportive and comfortable wrap-around seat with pronounced rounded = overhang in=20 back, like a period Mercedes seat. =20 1300 versions tend to have simpler, less-supportive seats.  Nuovas had=20 headrests on the front seats.  = The=20 rear seats generally had a fold-down center armrest. All seats through = the early=20 1970s were vinyl; some later cars came with cloth upholstery.

=B7       =20 Pedals: LHD cars morphed from = floor=20 pedals to hanging pedals in 1970, with attendant changes to the brake = and clutch=20 system.  RHD cars retained = floor=20 pedals to the end.

=B7       =20 Handbrake: In 1970, probably = at the same=20 time the hanging pedals came into use, the handbrake moved from the = Giulietta-based =93umbrella handle=94 under the = dash to a=20 pull-up handle type between the seats as on the GTV, Spider, and Berlina.  = At the=20 same time some of the switches (wiper, fan, etc) moved to a small unit = on the=20 floor between the shifter and the handbrake.

 

For further discussion of these many detail = differences, see=20 Fusi, Alfa Romeo: All the Cars From 1910, = d=92Amico & Tabucchi, Alfa Romeo=20 Production Cars, and the following thread on the Alfa Bulletin Board:=20 http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?t=3D27397

 

 

 

Berlina=20 T-Shirts

 

I still have a few XL = Berlina Register T-shirts for sale. $15 each = includes=20 shipping in US. $25 each overseas includes shipping.  Email for picture. Check, = cash, or money=20 order to Andrew Watry, 1284 Monterey Ave., Berkeley, CA 94707.

 

 

Berlina/Giulia Market=20 Report

 

1970=20 1750 Berlina.  White/black car described as = complete=20 with good interior, but needing relatively substantial body work (sills, = one=20 fender, floors) and brake rebuild due to having sat for some time.  Minimal pictures in ebay = posting make it=20 tough to judge, but it didn=92t look hopeless.  $397 ebay, = UK.  A true = parts-car price=20 for what in the US would be an operable car.  To pass its MOT in the UK, this = car=20 probably needs a lot of work, hence the low price. Such a car in the US = could be=20 put back on the road with function fixes for probably very low = cost.  A bargain, I think. Worth more than this in parts. 1/07 

 

1974=20 Giulia Super 1300.  Complete maroon car, with = spares that is=20 operable but has been largely unused, and the underside and rear fenders = are=20 pretty perforated.  = Alleged to run=20 great and drive well.  = $1938 ebay, UK. =20 From the pictures, the rear lower parts of the body, look = especially=20 sills and rear wheelwells, look = pretty=20 bad.  At UK labor=20 costs and with UK skills, probably not that big a deal to = fix.  Appears to have the wrong = badging on the trunk, and has the cheesy Nuova type plastic grille.  Seats appear to have cheap = covers, but=20 it=92s hard to be sure.  = For the=20 condition, and considering it=92s in the UK, this price was higher than = I=20 expected.  But how many = running=20 Supers do you see for under $2000 nowadays?  In the US the price would have = been=20 somewhat higher. 1/07  =

 

1972 US = 2000 Berlina. =20 Verde muschio = with pigskin=20 interior.  Complete, mechanically OK car with below average cosmetics = and=20 plenty of dents but minimal rust. =20 Same owner since 1979, in use as a regular = car but not=20 much maintenance in the past few years.  Seats pretty worn, dash = cracks.  Engine = strong with=20 Euro cams and good Spica; sits very low on = IAP=20 springs.  Drives = well and=20 pretty much everything works.  = $1250 private sale, Palo Alto, CA.  The seller basically just = wanted this=20 Berlina to go to a good home and didn=92t = want the=20 hassles of a public sale, hence the low price.  Although there is virtually no = rust (a=20 bit in two door bottoms) there are a number of sizable dents, including = that the=20 left front fender is out of kilter and the hood doesn=92t fit quite = right. Still, a great driving car at a bargain price.  If the seller had wanted to = deal with=20 the alfaBB, craigslist, or=20 ebay he would have got more, perhaps twice as much. 2/07

 

1964=20 Giulia TI.  Early = white=20 column-shift Giulia TI, a real = rarity.  Red leather seats over = original=20 vinyl.  A complete running = car with=20 some upgrades, and a body best described as a project.  Engine alleged to have 1750 = pistons and=20 a TZ crankshaft.  Single = Weber carb replaces Solex, = and it has=20 ATE brakes and 4.56 rear axle instead of Dunlops and=20 5.12 as built.  Lower body = has had a=20 tough life, but front end and rockers have been repaired; rear still = needs major=20 rust repair.  A very nice = driving=20 car, though, that=92s been around with various Alfa club owners in the = Northwest=20 and Bay Area. $4500 AlfaBB,=20 Portland, OR. Admittedly this car is not in the greatest cosmetic = condition, but there aren=92t many running column-shift cars left in the = world,=20 and the uprated engine with TZ crank is a = bonus.  I babysat this car last year = and drove=20 it for a couple months, and it was fun in a novelty way, though the = appeal of=20 column shift and bench front seat wears off quickly.  No question the body is a big = project,=20 and it will take a lot of pondering to decide whether to use it as is or = restore=20 it, which may involve replacing the whole trunk.  Either = way, a=20 more-than-fair price for a real piece of history. 2/07

 

1972 US = 2000 Berlina. =20 Beige cava with tan interior.  A very = nice looking=20 car that was still with its original owner in New Mexico.  Car looked straight and solid = all over,=20 with just tiny rust near the windows. =20 Interior good, with velour-recovered seats = starting to=20 wear out.  Working aftermarket AC (not factory; maybe dealer = installed) and=20 some extra gauges below the dash. Missing its = stainless=20 spears along the rockers.  = $2000, Alfa Owner, Albuquerque, = NM.   I=92d call this a = flat-out=20 bargain.  Advertised for = several=20 months in the AROC Alfa Owner; it took forever to sell.  Why?  Dunno.=20 Straight, complete, operable one-owner car from a dry western state, = cryptically=20 colored to blend in with the NM surroundings; what more could you = want?  This car was the virtual twin, = other=20 than the AC, of a Berlina I owned several = years ago=20 and still miss.  Great deal for the Wisconsin buyer.

 

1972=20 Giulia Super.  Yellow/black car that looked = quite nice,=20 although the alleged Piper Yellow paint looked closer to Fly Yellow to = me, and a=20 bit loud on a Giulia.  Nonetheless, an=20 all-around nice looking car in the ebay listing.  Alleged to = be all=20 original, with no rust. =20 $7000 ebay, El Salvador.  A very = good price for=20 a Giulia in this condition, look-at-me paint = notwithstanding. What probably held the price down here was that = the car=20 was in El Salvador, and probably not many buyers are local to it, so = it=92s going=20 to have to be shipped a long way, and who knows what Salvadoran shipping = arrangements, customs, and costs are? =20 I hope it works out OK for the buyer. If it does, it looks like a = great=20 car for the money (adding in at least $2000 for shipping). 3/07